rns.recipes

When I was getting into mesh networks, I obviously came across Meshtastic. The thing, that they do really well is simplicity. Flashing a dedicated hardware is easy both for RNodes and Meshtastic, but Meshtastic has significantly better experience when it comes to connecting it and using. In my opinion, to get better adaptability, app distributed on the official App Store and Play Store is required. Especially given the fact, that Google is killing third party apps on Androids and iOS clients are pretty much non-existent. To match meshtastic experience all that is required is a simple mobile app that gets you through bluetooth connection with your RNode and allows to use Reticulum over it. A simple UI bluetooth messaging app. We already have micro reticulum so every puzzle piece is already available As far as I know getting the full reticulum node on the official store is problematic (if possible at all?), but my idea above is already a huge win for ease of access. Given tha fact that lora hardware is pretty cheap. With that moving from Meshtastic to Reticulum would be a no brainer. Thoughts?

doh! it's plenty of android clients, sideband, columba, reticulum mobile, ratspeak...

I think that’s a solid point—Google is garbage! In this situation, I’d suggest either switching to mobile GNU/Linux or installing a custom ROM without Google services (apparently, that lets you install whatever you want). Sure, these apps might still be released on Google Play, but honestly, Android stopped being a viable place to stay years ago; this was just the final nail in the coffin—and a good thing, too! We need to break free from this cycle and that ridiculous control as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, nothing has yet managed to become a proper substitute for Android...

I agree completely! That's why I started Columba. It just takes a long time ;)

It's great that there are android apps, but google being trash and locking the android from third party installs means, that getting them will become incredibly difficult. If we don't have a Play Store and App Store reticulum client, it might meant 8 out of 10 potential users will never use it. The reality is that pretty much 100% of mobile devices are either android or iOS, and none will have a possibility to easily access reticulum network. It's wishful thinking to expect people to install cutom ROM (also good luck with iPhones). Unless a real alternative OS with wider adoption will see the light, we need to adapt. The idea behind reticulum, mesh networks and independent free communication is already enough to convince a non tech saavy person to give it a shot, heck, even buy a dedicated hardware. But it needs to be straight forward to use, plug & play. Meshtastic understands this and they do it very well.

as an android developer: avoid play store please! maybe you don't know or you are not aware the garbage that google packs inside your apk before publishing! if its not possible to download rns related apps for you, stay with whatsapp, you don't need other things! enjoy this free provocation, with love. maybe f-droid store is better...

Exactly, @2674f541.

I designed and wrote Sideband very carefully to not rely on any Google-provided APIs, "helpers", "compatibility libraries", et cetera, et cetera, exactly so it would not be hooked into any of the many privacy-breaking pitfalls and traps that Google sets up for Android developers and users.

It doesn't even use the Android APIs for rendering its user interface; everything is drawn directly using GPU-accelerated SDL2.

Sideband will never be on the play store, or any other similarly broken platform. That would require handing over so much control of the application and break very basic required security and privacy guarantees.

It would also make it possible for governments or Google itself to remotely wipe it from your device if they so desire.

The solution is not to start good-boy ass-licking policymakers and corporations that are oppresive, and what Flab (or Fab, or whatever) is suggesting here is effectively that.

If we don't have a Play Store and App Store reticulum client, it might meant 8 out of 10 potential users will never use it. The reality is that pretty much 100% of mobile devices are either android or iOS, and none will have a possibility to easily access reticulum network. It's wishful thinking to expect people to install cutom ROM (also good luck with iPhones).

Can you not install it just from the .apk or Obtainium? https://obtainium.imranr.dev/

Sideband is going to be rejected from the Play Store because it overrides Android's battery optimization exemption and very recently (2024?2025?) they have started to auto-reject applications that declare that as a permission. It's not possible to run RNS as a background service without this and there is no way around it.

I think there is a slight misunderstanding. I don't have a problem with installing reticulum, I am a programmer myself and have done mobile development. I happily use reticulum on my android via Sideband (had some issues with MeshChatX there) and it's great.

I also do not argue about ideological reasons with Play Store, I fully agree with all of you that it sucks and we should avoid it.

However, I have major concerns with this decision in pratical sense, not ideological.

1. It's in the best interest of reticulum to get as much adoption as possible, by avoiding major stores, we are basically giving up on any mobile support. Any non technical person will have no idea how to install "this messaging app their friend has". Sure, if reticulum is supposed to be only for technical people, then my point is completely irrevelant.

1.1 The problem will only get much deeper in 90 days, when google locks third party apps (https://keepandroidopen.org/). Look at the steps required to install .apk. It's ridiculous. Ignoring this is not gonna help reticulum at all, even if it's ideologically right thing to do.

1.2 So far everything in this thread is about Android, but what about iOS? I am at the point where I actually want to use reticulum as a primary network to talk with my friends, but there is currently no real support for it for any app mentioned so far. Using TestFlight is at best a temporary solution, that I (a tech person) might do. There is no way I can convince my friends to install a third party app in a weird non-official way. It's already a very delicate process not to look crazy when explaining why they should switch from apps from predatory corporations.

2. We can't change all the bad things in this world at once. It's a careful process which we can only do step by step. Even if adding a reticulum client to Play Store/App Store is "wrong", we actually can change one thing for good by doing so. Getting people to build and use an independent network.

Once Reticulum becomes strong enough, we can start changing the next thing, which is getting people to use alternative (better) way to get their messaging app on the phone - because their friends use it, that is a good enough reason to go extra step for installation. It's not ass licking corporations, it's using the system for our own goals.

3. My original idea for this thread was about getting a mobile app which isn't reticulum node by itself, it's just a companion app that communicates with RNode via bluetooth. RNode runs microReticulum and handles all node networking. I believe there isn't much when it comes to privacy tampering and background permissions there.

I know this is an uncomfortable discussion and I have strong emotions about Google Play, the future of mobile devices and the world itself, but raising that discussion is my way of trying to change things for the better. I want reticulum to be as successful as possible.

On top of Google Play Store being centralized: to publish on the Google Play Store, you need to verify your developer account by linking a Google Payments profile, containing your legal name and address, phone number, e-mail address and a website.
https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/10841920?hl=en

That is, to me, an understandable reason for not wanting to publish there.

The Meshtastic/MeshCore model of the LoRa device firmware being the actual network node, and the client app being just a dumb viewer to it would indeed make the app easier to fit into the mainstream app stores.

Downside is that then the LoRa device holds the keys, and you have to trust Bluetooth or Serial for the security of your communications. From the point of view of Meshtastic, anybody who can connect to a Meshtastic device is in full control (can send/receive messages with that device's identity, can modify configuration, etc).

But totally agreed that they're a lot more approachable to newcomers. Having apps in the app store would be critical for example to get the boating community over from Meshtastic to Reticulum (which would give us a lot of LoRa transport nodes well situated in various port cities).

My personal approach to the "app store problem" is to focus on web apps. They can run anywhere, no gatekeeping involved. Hence reticulum-js.

Coincidentally, a Reticulum LoRa transport node that would talk WebSockets would be a great way to get webapps into the wider Reticulum mesh.

I wonder how feasible it would be to have an LXMF Messenger that treated store-and-forward as the primary mechanism, and direct LXMF over links as a nice bonus when stars align.

That would get you past a lot of the app store / power saving hurdles while still keeping the identity on device. Though I suppose then the paradigm is more email client than instant messenger.

I believe this approach would solve issues described by @Mark here https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/discussions/963#discussioncomment-14909882 - by running a reticulum stack on dedicated, power-efficient hardware we avoid significant battery drain issues on various devices. It also sort of mimics server-client paradigm described by Mark, which mobile devices are optimized for. I might try and play around the idea when I find some time